As is my way, I started tootling around seeing if I could tickle out how R’Yoel Roth, one of the last people to see Moshe Kleinerman alive, and the late R’ Eliezer Shick might be connected.

In THIS post, we learnt that:

  • R’ Yoel Roth is currently being investigated by the NYPD for performing under-age marriages in the US;
  • R’ Roth is the grandson of the ‘Klausberg Rebbe’ Yehezkel Roth, who was the main posek for Satmar, and who built a massive complex in Meron.
  • R’ Yoel Roth has a camp for teenage boys in the Catskills called Camp Heichel Hakodesh Breslov.
  • R’ Yoel Roth apparently ‘inherited’ his kehillah from the late R’ Eliezer Schick, aka ‘the Tzaddik of Yavniel’ – who also got arrested in Israel back in 2011, for performing underage marriages.


Thanks to Daniel Amram, we have this proof that Moishy Kleinerman was travelling around with R’ Yoel Roth’s group, and spent a number of days with them:


The last place Moishy was seen with R’ Yoel Roth’s group was in Meron (where that huge complex is that belonged to Roth’s grandpa, the ‘Klausberg Rebbe’) .

We also know that the police and media in Israel have been strangely reticent to talk about R’ Yoel Roth’s connection to this case.

And that the police apparently have ‘no leads’ to go on, even though they have cameras all over the country, including in Meron, and could presumably see very easily if Moishy Kleinerman left Meron with R’ Yoel Roth’s group, or whether he stayed behind.

It’s little details like this, that start to build up the picture, and show you who you should be talking to, to get ‘more leads’…


Let’s restate this point, it’s so important:

The whole of Meron is BRISTLING with the latest hi-tech AI cameras, and they are literally set up all over the place at multiple locations.

I guarantee the police have footage of Moishy Kleinerman in Meron shortly before he went missing, and it’s outrageous that they aren’t releasing that footage publically, to try and fill in more of the gaps of:

  1. IF Moishy Kleinerman actually left Meron; and
  2. WHO Moishy Kleinerman left Meron with, if he actually left Meron at all.

The biggest red flag in all this is the total police apathy and criminal cover-up.

This was never about some ‘homeless man’ abusing and then killing Moishy, to keep him from talking.


Here’s some other information I’ve now learnt about this case.

  1. There is a mekubal (at least one) advising the family, who told the people looking for Moishy last week to search in a particular location close to Meron. As soon as the police heard about this, they announced they’d ‘found the killer’, and the search was called off.

Do you believe in CO-IN-CID-ENCES?

Because I don’t.

2. The police then slapped a gag order on the whole case – only to release their “homeless man” suspect a few days later, when they went to Moishy’s parents to tell them they’d got it all wrong, and they are back to square one, apparently with no leads.


So, that’s the background.

And now, let’s take a closer look at how R’ Yoel Roth appears to have ‘inherited’ the kehilla of R’ Eliezer Shick, the late ‘Tzaddik of Yavniel’.

Again, God forbid, I’m not accusing R’ Yoel Roth of anything. I’m just taking a ‘wide lense’ approach to looking at this, to see if more of the details of what may have happened to Moishy start coming together.

If I was in R’ Roth’s shoes, I would be voluntarily speaking to the police here to help them with their search, and I would be demanding that police release the footage from Meron that shows Moishy’s last recorded movements there.

If Moishy clearly didn’t get on the bus with the rest of R’ Roth’s group when they left Meron, that is a huge piece of relevant information. And if he DID get on the bus….

Then there is another lead to explore.


First stop on our journey of discovery: the Wiki page for R’ Eliezer Shick.

HERE‘s the English page, but there’s a Hebrew page on the Hamichlol site HERE that gives a lot more pertinent details.

First, let’s get the ‘elephant in the room’ out the way.

There was for sure underage marriages being performed in Yavniel all the time – I had a former friend who joined the community there, and who married off her sons at a young age.

And she was by no means unusual.


My feelings about this issue are extremely mixed.

In the old days, girls would be married at 12 and boys at 13 – this is how Rebbe Nachman and Rav Natan started their married lives, straight after their batmitzvahs.


We are not in the ‘old days’ right now, and while I totally agree with people getting married as early as they can, and I think that there is no reason why a 16 year old, say, couldn’t choose to get married (except that the corrupt secular law now forbids that….), there IS another side to that discussion that I find very disturbing.

And that is the idea that these kids may be getting pressured by their parents into marrying underage, without really choosing that themselves.

And not just in places like Yavniel.


I know of someone personally, not from the Breslov community, who married their daughter off age 15, by lying about her real age to the shadchan.

The family said she was 17 – so they’d still have to do an ‘illegal wedding’.

That parent was having a very hard time with her daughter, and was worrying she would go off the path, and getting her married off very young seemed to be the solution she came up with.

I don’t think that’s OK, personally.


At the same time, lots of my daughter’s friends got engaged at 17, and married on or around their 18th birthdays.

And that is really healthy and good, in my view, not least because this is the path these girls were choosing for themselves, they weren’t being pressured into it, by their rav or parents.

So, the whole underage marriage thing is a very fraught, complicated subject, because I don’t believe it’s better for teenagers to be having relationships out of wedlock, and at the same time, the secular authorities just keep raising the age when you can legally get married.

(But you can apparently ‘change sex’ and have a double mastectomy or castrate yourself any age you want….)


Let’s get back to Rav Shick.

Snippets from the Wiki page HERE:

Eliezer Shlomo Schick was born in Jerusalem, Mandatory Palestine, to Rabbi Menachem Zev, the gaavad (head of the rabbinical court) of Tokay, Hungary, and his wife Malka.

As a young boy, he learned in the Etz Chaim cheder.

When he was a youth, his family relocated to New York City, where he studied in the Kashauyeshiva and then in Mesivtha Tifereth Jerusalem under Rabbi Moshe Feinstein….

In 1962 he married Shifra Rotenberg, daughter of the Kossoner Rav, Rabbi Asher Yeshaya Halevi Rotenberg.


While Wikipedia doesn’t give details about his children, HERE I discovered that the late Rav Shick had at least two sons, one of whom apparently lives in Yavniel and leads the kehillah there.



HERE on the HaMichlol website, it gives more details and mentions Rav Shick’s other son, Nachman Schick, and about his two most prominent students,

Some of [R Shick’s] students accepted Rabbi Yitzhak Lazar as the successor to his Rabbinic legacy. Another prominent student is Rabbi Joel Roth.

Before his death, Rabbi Schick wrote that he had not appointed a leader in his place so that they would not patronize each other in the seminary. This is why the Seminary is leaderless, with the Heichal HaKadosh’s influencers effectively leading the public.

The most prominent among them: Rabbi Nachman Alexander Zosha Shik, [Rav Shick’s son] Rabbi Hillel Amdadi – the head of the Beit Shlomo Yebnal Yeshiva, Rabbi Avraham Naor-whom Rabbi Shik appointed as head of the Community Committee, Rabbi Eliyahu Maya – Director of the Yiddish Talmud Torah, Rabbi Avner Salma and Rabbi Yonatan Azrihab.


From what I can tell, R’ Yitzhak Azar now lives in Yavniel.

Meanwhile, the page for Rav Shick’s son Rabbi Nachman Alexander Zosha Shik has been totally scrubbed.

I don’t know why.

And that leaves us R’ Yoel Roth, who seems to have ‘inherited’ or taken over at least part of R’ Shick’s congregation in Williamsburg.


You can see the HaMichlol page for him HERE.

Translated snippets:

Rabbi Roth is the grandson of Rabbi Yehezkel Roth.

Soon after his marriage, he became acquainted with Rabbi Eliezer Shlomo Shik’s book “Asher in the Nahal” and has since grown close to the Hasidim of Breslav…

Rabbi Roth educates his students to be satisfied with little, especially in relation to their wedding expenses, in contrast to the Haredi public in the United States… he sends many of his students to live in Kiryat Breslav in Liberty, where apartment prices range from fifty to a hundred thousand dollars, and he also encourages his students to marry off their children at a young age.

In the summer of 2019, he founded Kiryat Breslav Liberty.


I just learnt from HERE that his grandfather, R Yehezkel Roth, WAS actually a Satmar chassid – a fact that has been peculiarly played down elsewhere, and that he and his wife are actually buried in Meron.


[Yehezkel Roth] studied at the Yeshiva of Beit Yosef Zvi Dushinsky in Jerusalem in the shadow of Rabbi Yisrael Moshe Dushinsky and at the Satmar Yeshiva in Jerusalem led by Rabbi Moshe Arie Frend

He married Haya Rachel, the daughter of Rabbi Chaim Ma’andel Cohen, of Satmar Chassidut in Katamon. In his youth, he served as a teacher in Jerusalem and was the rabbi of the Satmar Synagogue in Katamon.


OK, so from HERE, we learn about Yoel Roth’s new town in the Catskills, called ‘Kiryat Breslov Liberty’.

Translated snippet:

[Yoel Roth] encouraged his students to leave big cities like Williamsburg and Borough Park, where apartment prices are skyrocketing, and in the summer of 2019, he announced the establishment of a settlement at Liberty in the Catskills, urging his students to move in. 

After 3 years, as of the end of 2021, about a hundred families live in the place.


This sounds like another place where people should be checking for Moishy Kleinerman leads.

Don’t you think?

If you go HERE, you’ll find a bunch more information and pictures about the ‘Kiryat Breslov’ in Liberty, up in the Catskills (only in Hebrew).


Again, this is just basic policing 101, to check and double-check so you can cross stuff off the list.

It makes sense, to at least check into the possibility that Moishy may have been whisked away to be ‘married underage’ without his parents’ knowledge.

Doesn’t it?


Last things for now.

R’ Eliezer Shick has a very interesting family tree, that leads directly to the heart of most of the ‘interesting’ people I’ve been researching. Of itself, that’s not a smoking gun, but it’s interesting to note that all these people always seem to be so closely connected to each other, stretching back over many centuries.

Also, Tokay (where Rav Schick’s family are originally from) and Satmar are connected.

When I went to check out Yoel Roth’s yichus, I got to this guy and apparent namesake, R’ Yoel Zvi Roth of Chust.


I remembered seeing ‘Chust’ somewhere recently, so I did a search for it on my blog, and this is what came up:


Ah yes.


I don’t know what all this means.

But it’s certainly an interesting CO-IN-CI-DENCE.


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2 replies
  1. Shimshon
    Shimshon says:

    I don’t think it’s only in the movies that police departments talk internationally where potentially criminal matters are involved.

    NYPD alone is almost it’s own army with international outreach. And Israel of course only has a national police, with an international reputation.

  2. JR
    JR says:

    “and it’s outrageous that they aren’t releasing that footage publically”

    I suppose it all depends all the laws and regulations covering gov’t CCTV footage.
    Take for example traffic cameras in Washington, DC. One can make requests for footage. However, the gov’t doesn’t keep the footage beyond ten days, so you’ve got to make the request immediately.

    Obviously, this is very different. It’s security footage, and no doubt there are different laws here. Israel does have Freedom Of Information laws, and the gov’t is bound by law to release information upon request in accordance with those laws. If it’s like the America FOIA laws, some nominal charge may be involved. It also may depends on which gov’t dep’t is running the cameras, not to mention regulations governing cameras run by the private sector.

    One the retention of video footage, see the following article that discusses the issues and regulations covering both gov’t and industry footage:

    How long should the police keep footage? Privacy advocates would argue for shorter periods, and victims of (alleged) unsolved crimes would argue for longer periods.

    It’s not that simple.


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